is good, then I should be looking elsewhere? Took me a while to figure that one out, and how to say that. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. absorb by the evaporator to insure all liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). . Putting R12 into a R134 vehicle | AnandTech Forums: Technology Is it exponential, squared? You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. The newer valves and switches will work with both refrigerants. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. I have just bought gauges. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. Expansion Valve Differences R12 vs R134 - Automotive Air Conditioning Any advice appreciated. The flammables have hydrocarbons. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? I'll put the relay on for that. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: Chemistry The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Are you sure you have an R4? R12 contains a chemical called chlorine that destroys the ozone layer, thereby causing potential environmental risk. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . R134a requires a different oil. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. A final difference is that most (though not all) R-1234yf cars will have a Suction Line Heat Exchanger. . Any ideas from the info above? system of 0.33 TR and refrigerant used was R12. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve The value of carbon dioxide is 1. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. link to How to cut off a Catalytic Converter. I have a laser temp reader, and it says the temps going into the condensor are up to 160F - coming out it is always around 110 or so. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. For R12, its mineral oil. There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which dont work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. Compressor. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . The old compressor used R12 and the new unit will be R134a. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. To prevent refrigerant loss you should consider replacing your old hose lines with barrier type hose. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve I think the way to go here is1. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. Blows pretty hard on full. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? But R22 is almost equally damaging. Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . The evap is hard to get at. Right now you know you have a bit too much, but with a CR4P compressor this is an insurance policy. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . Sense ells no existirem. However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. It won't be optimal, though. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Safe but sorry! A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. Only show this user. . Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. we convert older systems where i work all the time and they work fine. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. Measure what you have now.3) Go back to the page in step one, and find the largest condensor you can put in your vehicle.